Talk:Array notation: Difference between revisions

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36 bytes added ,  11:01, 11 September 2022
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:I'll add what I know about the history to the main page. I wasn't aware of the APL# design, so thanks for pointing that out. Most of what you've written doesn't seem appropriate for a wiki, and I'd recommend instead publishing it somewhere else under your name and citing it here. If the conversations with John Scholes are private emails, they're not [[APL_Wiki:Content_guidelines#Verifiability|verifiable]] by a reader unless sourced this way. And as a reader I'm not interested in things like internal issue numbers and half-formed unpublished ideas like :Array. There's a reason Wikipedia [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest#Writing_about_yourself,_family,_friends|says things]] like "If you have a personal connection to a topic or person, you are advised to refrain from editing those articles directly". We're not so strict about this, but my judgment here (as someone who also has a personal connection!) is that it's interfering with the information density that most readers would want. --[[User:Marshall|Marshall]] ([[User talk:Marshall|talk]]) 12:50, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
:I'll add what I know about the history to the main page. I wasn't aware of the APL# design, so thanks for pointing that out. Most of what you've written doesn't seem appropriate for a wiki, and I'd recommend instead publishing it somewhere else under your name and citing it here. If the conversations with John Scholes are private emails, they're not [[APL_Wiki:Content_guidelines#Verifiability|verifiable]] by a reader unless sourced this way. And as a reader I'm not interested in things like internal issue numbers and half-formed unpublished ideas like :Array. There's a reason Wikipedia [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest#Writing_about_yourself,_family,_friends|says things]] like "If you have a personal connection to a topic or person, you are advised to refrain from editing those articles directly". We're not so strict about this, but my judgment here (as someone who also has a personal connection!) is that it's interfering with the information density that most readers would want. --[[User:Marshall|Marshall]] ([[User talk:Marshall|talk]]) 12:50, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


:Having read the relevant parts of the APL# [https://www.dyalog.com/uploads/conference/dyalog11/presentations/D08_apl_sharp/AplSharpDescription.pdf language description] I disagree with the description you've given. A namespace is a list of expressions, not name-value pairs: for example <code>[[ a←b←⍳10 ⋄ {a[⍵]←0}¨2 4 6 ]]</code> would be allowed. Having not worked with <source lang=apl inline>:namespace</syntaxhighlight> I may be missing some details, but it seems <code>[[</code> and <code>]]</code> function identically to <source lang=apl inline>:Namespace</syntaxhighlight> and <source lang=apl inline>:EndNamespace</syntaxhighlight> and those aren't considered array notation. It's still relevant to the history but the framing as a kind of array notation seems misleading to me. Similarly, I took out the section on NARS: there's no discussion of the display as a way to write arrays in the manual, and multi-line printout with parentheses appears to be purely for display. So Adám's claim that "the need for a way to represent complex structures was already recognised" is speculative unless there's a source I haven't seen. --[[User:Marshall|Marshall]] ([[User talk:Marshall|talk]]) 14:41, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
:Having read the relevant parts of the APL# [https://www.dyalog.com/uploads/conference/dyalog11/presentations/D08_apl_sharp/AplSharpDescription.pdf language description] I disagree with the description you've given. A namespace is a list of expressions, not name-value pairs: for example <code>[[ a←b←⍳10 ⋄ {a[⍵]←0}¨2 4 6 ]]</code> would be allowed. Having not worked with <syntaxhighlight lang=apl inline>:namespace</syntaxhighlight> I may be missing some details, but it seems <code>[[</code> and <code>]]</code> function identically to <syntaxhighlight lang=apl inline>:Namespace</syntaxhighlight> and <syntaxhighlight lang=apl inline>:EndNamespace</syntaxhighlight> and those aren't considered array notation. It's still relevant to the history but the framing as a kind of array notation seems misleading to me. Similarly, I took out the section on NARS: there's no discussion of the display as a way to write arrays in the manual, and multi-line printout with parentheses appears to be purely for display. So Adám's claim that "the need for a way to represent complex structures was already recognised" is speculative unless there's a source I haven't seen. --[[User:Marshall|Marshall]] ([[User talk:Marshall|talk]]) 14:41, 19 August 2022 (UTC)


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With regard to APL#:
With regard to APL#:
* in APL there's no real distinction between value and expression.
* in APL there's no real distinction between value and expression.
* if <source lang=apl inline>[[name  ← (value of) expression]]</syntaxhighlight> isn't array notation then I don't see how "( name : (value of) expression )" can be.
* if <syntaxhighlight lang=apl inline>[[name  ← (value of) expression]]</syntaxhighlight> isn't array notation then I don't see how "( name : (value of) expression )" can be.
* My 2015 talk makes clear that a dictionary (namespace - whatever) is a particular form of array and deserves to be a part of the notation.
* My 2015 talk makes clear that a dictionary (namespace - whatever) is a particular form of array and deserves to be a part of the notation.


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